Is Creatine vegan [Renamed by mods from-one more question related to your earlier post]

[This has been moved from the Introduce yourself forum - mod]

You mentioned that Creatine is Vegan. I thought I had heard animal product is used. Are there creatine and nitrogen brands that are produced by companies that support vegan products?

If I as a user of this forum may be so bold to say:

Ristretto, you might place your question in the supplements forum now that you are on that topic rather than an intro.

http://www.veganbodybuilding.org/supps.htm <--- And then, you have to delve through the vendors pages and some are not selling all vegan goods.

I never really thought of the creatine question though it makes sense, in the supplements section, there is already a question talking about creatine.

I would suppose this is the supplement page. I am finding I can find a lot of answers myself if I search the web but otoh, on the other hand, this forum sure got me thinking and pointed in the right direction on some matters.

You should join in the talk in the other forums perhaps. Share with us your knowledge and experience as well.

Creatine as a supplement is vegan I'm pretty sure. Creatine is also present in animal flesh but what you buy as a supplement is synthesized in a laboratory, not extracted from flesh. Not really sure about the question about companies but Vegan Essentials probably is trying to buy from a good source. (I know the owner. Good guy.)
http://store.veganessentials.com/categories.aspx?Keyword=creatine

Every brand of creatine so far checked is synthetic. Creatine was originally discovered in animals (it's in all muscle tissue), but was then created in a lab. It was cost a silly amount to get creatine from an animal & is dirt cheap to produce in a lab.
You need to be concerned if they have other stuff added to their creatine, I tend to just shoot off a quick email to confirm any product I'm buying is vegan before I buy as it takes seconds to do & you soon build up a list of stuff you use regularly anyway.
[I'll move this to supplements as it's a question for that forum]

Not sure if I should have started a new creatine post or not, but anyway.

When is the best time to take creatine? I currently take tri-creatine malate before and after workouts at 3g per serve (as suggested on the bottle). Is this enough? I'm a 58kg (127 pounds) woman trying to gain lean mass. I'm dubious about cycling. I've also heard to take it first thing in the morning and last thing at night, but is this excessive? I've also read that the average person can't absorb more than 6g per day.

I'd appreciate any advice/suggestions/links, thanks.

First off there are no scientific studies involving tri-creatine malate that I could find - it appears to be just creatine monohydrate bonded to a malic acid. So, I can't say there are any studies to back up any dosage for best results, so everything I say is going to have to be based on hearsay & anecdote.
As there are no studies I would stick to the containers recommendations as a guideline (as we have nothing else to go on). Personally I'd consider moving to a creatine monohydrate as I suspect it will be cheaper & there are many research papers on the subject so you can get a better idea of what to take. There are several versions of taking creatine, but here's the guide Robbie Hazeley (vegan bodybuilder) uses http://www.veganbodybuilding.org/creatine.htm that you might find useful.

Absorption depends upon how much 'room' you have for more creatine. Some people can store a lot, while others only have a little 'storage space', also some people naturally produce more than others daily, so fill up their stores more quickly than others, so there isn't a set amount that is universally accepted for everyone, we each take in as much as we can to 'top up' our stores, then stop. the rest is passed through the kidneys & urinated out.
I do recommend cycling off just so you don't down regulate production (although older people can benefit from a more consistent intake). Cycling should depend on your training cycle, it should be arranged so the heaviest or hardest part of the cycle is when you are on creatine - so for say a powerlifter, you'd take creatine for the build-up cycle to a contest, the contest itself, then cycle off after the contest when you lighten the load & begin a less taxing recovery cycle.

More than 5-6grams of creatine monohydrate shouldn't be needed by many people unless they are very short of creatine (bear in mind tri-creatine malate is 3 parts creatine monhydrate & 1 part malic acid, so you'd need more grams to get the same amount of creatine as pure creatine monohydrate).

Taking creatine pre-post workout or AM/PM doesn't really matter as what you are doing is filling up stores of creatine, so whenever is most convenient for you. As far as I know there are no studies that compare the two ways of taking creatine (that I've been able to find anyway), so no one can say for sure if the time of day makes any difference when taking creatine.

Hopefully that's been of some help to you - if I missed out anything then let me know & I'll try & answer it.

Thanks Pete, that makes sense, I will stick with 6g per day in total.

I originally used creatine monohydrate but I seem to have a bit of a delicate digestive system and found even with a divided dose, I would bloat and sometimes be too uncomfortable to have a good training session. I can't vouch for the effectiveness of tri-creatine malate because I can't find any good trials on it, but it seems just as effective for me as monohydrate. You apparently need less because each molecule is 3 creatines (without the monohydrates) and 1 malate, so you get more creatines per molecule, and because it is joined to a member of the Krebs/TCA cycle - malate - it is better absorbed. But like I said, I can't vouch for these sources.

If I find some reliable info I'll post it here.

I had good results just taking it after workouts.

My advice to anyone is - if it's working & it's not generally considered harmful, then stick with it. If you find you are getting the expected effects from the type of creatine you are using then stick with that. It's the same with training, if the results you want are coming, then stick to that until the results stop, then move on. Some people argue that certain things are purely placebo (I'm not saying this creatine is as it's quite likely it would work judging by the way it's put together)...but think about it, so what even if anything is placebo - say I take a pre-workout drink & it's purely placebo...but I workout harder with it? Then I get better results! So for the best results I should stick with it even though it does nothing! In my view the mental aspect of training is highly underrated & anything that allows you to dig into that 'mental store' is a good thing. Hence the timing with the creatine - if taking it just pre-training makes you workout harder than taking AM, or just after training, then stick with that. I find a lot of people who have pre-workout habits tend to have better workouts - at least I've found that in the people I've worked with, so having a pre-workout routine can be beneficial to many I think just to move you from 'everyday life' to 'the gym' in your head.
Right think I've gone on enough for now....so I'll stop!