Whey protein

I appreciate that whey, being a milk product isn't vegan although it does qualify as veggie, but I picked some up at the grocery the other day. It tastes better than the soy protein I've used (and gawd knows it tastes better than the egg-white protein I used before that).

But does anyone have an opinion about whey protein?

Unless stated whey isn't a veggie product whey is created by adding rennet to milk rennet is an enzyme extracted from the stomach of calves when they are slaughtered, so whey isn't suitable for vegetarians (whey suitable for vegetarians is made using genetically modified rennet).

Whey is at least as good as any other protein powder out there, I've seen very little in terms of the oestrogen content of whey products. It's certainly in there, but the only study I've found points to it being pretty low, but it fails to cover a few points - like the exact state of the cows, as the amount of oestrogens depends on where the cow is on the birthing cycle (a cow could be re-impregnated while giving milk, that increases the oestrogen, as does the type of cow, with modern breeds giving higher oestrogen levels than older breeds).

For a veggie you'd have to find a vegetarian version of whey, not the commercial stuff produced by many companies.

I've never actually tasted a whey protein, so I can't comment on the taste.

I have worked with a few people who use whey & they grow just the same as those who use other protein sources (technically whey has higher l-leucine than soya, hemp, pea or rice hence for those dieting I tend to suggest people using vegetable based protein should add l-leucine or BCAAs to their diet just to edge a little more towards anabolic when calories are tight - like contest dieting).

im a bodybuilder and protein is my main focus day in and day out as I consume about 5 protein shakes(whey) a day. No side effect, however if you take more then 2x your bodyweight in grams of protein it is harder for your kidneys to break it down. Other then that there are NO SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN NEGETIVE SIDE EFFECTS

Actually there can be one side effect of taking in a lot of protein shakes & this can be caused by a lack of fibre. Obviously you can avoid that by adding fibre to your shakes (if you have as many as 5 a day), or just by eating a lot of high fibre foods if you are having just one or 2 shakes a day. But that's the only confirmed issue with high protein from shakes I've come across - constipation & an increased risk of haemorrhoids (due to the lack of regularity) if you don't eat much fibre or have a LOT of shakes.

Wow, wongk222... five shakes a day...!
That's impressive, I used to think that two or maybe three high calorie shakes a day was a lot, but that was back when I was interested in building bulk, and when I was still putting parts of dead animals in my mouth.
It sounds like you're working out conscientiously to utilize five. Good for you!
Maybe a good question is the calorie count of your shakes as well as the fiber content.

My own shake these days consists of blended mixed frozen fruit, almond milk, milled flax seed, wheat germ, wheat bran, and a scoop of the whey protein I bought too much of to throw away.
I haven't a clue about the calorie count, but my weight is holding about where I want it, and my mirror is being kind to me.

...& the fruit, flax & wheat bran will stop any potential blockages too!
I don't think many people need 5 shakes a day. You'd have to be doing an extreme diet - see 'velocity diet' or PSMF (Protein Sparing Modified fast) for some details on some extreme eating styles to lose fat, but attempt to hold muscle - as a side note you can modify these diet to easily be vegan versions as they are based around protein power & BCAAs, both of which can be found easily....Not that I recommend doing them, but if you are healthy, but a little over-fat, they shouldn't kill you in the short term.

I read "The New V-Diet Test Drive"
by Dan John and Chris Shugart, as posted
and found the guys' dialogue interesting and entertaining, but I agree with Pete,
"...Not that I recommend doing them, but if you are healthy, but a little over-fat, they shouldn't kill you in the short term."

There aint no Free Lunch... each of us has to do this individually...
Proper food, proper exercise, dedication to the the sport, and the courage to persist when progress doesn't happen as rapidly as we wish it would...
Oh... and a sense of humor is helpful too.

Good luck, wongk222, stay in touch and let us know how you're doing.

Sure enough, no pun meant here, maybe a protein shake daily but whey can weigh me down, I really feel it, like when you bend over and you might breath heavily, kind of like you are full or something. I have read before in the body building/men's health type magazines where they say have a shake in the morning (even putting sugar in it), with all meals, before a workout and after and before you go to bed (actually, they are saying casein now before bedtime for its time release properties or something, see thread I made on that), it's easy to see it can add up quickly. If I were a skinny orientated guy, maybe I could have that much and though I would not say I'm hefty, I'm probably more inclined in that direction, average build.

I'm a bit concerned now too about the BCAA or how do you say, the branch chain amino acids, I just need that for the recovery of tired muscles, soya milk works well.

I was listening to a bodybuilder the other day being interviewed (an IFBB pro) & he only had 3 shakes a day (& that's with a ton of drugs to aid assimilation & utilisation of protein). I mean if you're a crazy ectomorph you might just need to pile on the calories & shakes might be the only way, but I'd prefer a person to eat real food most of the time if possible.

Pete wrote:

Unless stated whey isn't a veggie product whey is created by adding rennet to milk rennet is an enzyme extracted from the stomach of calves when they are slaughtered, so whey isn't suitable for vegetarians (whey suitable for vegetarians is made using genetically modified rennet).

Whey is at least as good as any other protein powder out there, I've seen very little in terms of the oestrogen content of whey products. It's certainly in there, but the only study I've found points to it being pretty low, but it fails to cover a few points - like the exact state of the cows, as the amount of oestrogens depends on where the cow is on the birthing cycle (a cow could be re-impregnated while giving milk, that increases the oestrogen, as does the type of cow, with modern breeds giving higher oestrogen levels than older breeds).

For a veggie you'd have to find a vegetarian version of whey, not the commercial stuff produced by many companies.

I've never actually tasted a whey protein, so I can't comment on the taste.

I have worked with a few people who use whey & they grow just the same as those who use other protein sources (technically whey has higher l-leucine than soya, hemp, pea or rice hence for those dieting I tend to suggest people using vegetable based protein should add l-leucine or BCAAs to their diet just to edge a little more towards anabolic when calories are tight - like contest dieting).

Just months ago, I had some cheese made by a friend, he is a real do-it-yourselfer, I doubt if this cheese he made had this rennet/rennin in it though I gather it was made from milk. It is common to see vegetarian cheeses. I never knew about this angle with the rennet/rennin. Sounds very negative.

http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/cheese.htm

They talk about here in the first few paragraphs, saying the same thing you said, a bit graphic really to repeat.

I talked to this fellow from India about their diet, in his religion they don't eat any meat, no poultry either which many Indians still eat such as Tandoor chicken but they eat cheese but it is often of the variety like the cheese my friend made, a sort of country cheese for lack of a better word. That cheese tastes pretty good.

Ghee, like butter I'm sure Pete knows we can get at the store but I've stayed away from it. I know a lot of Indian food is still suppose to be very rich and have a lot of the oils and the like that is not considered the most healthy even if it is vegetarian.

I believe all western cheese, that isn't vegetarian cheese is not veggie - your cheese making friend might well use rennet as it's available easily from stores (& just looks like powder I believe). There may be other cultures that have hit upon a cheese making process that doesn't involve a rennet so I couldn't answer for cheese made be vegetarians in India, as to be honest I don't really look at cheese etc beyond ingredients & nutritional profile.

My friend/acquaintance is from Egypt, I'm rather sure he made a simple type of cheese using only vinegar and salt and milk as in the link below but now I do see from recipes on the web that yes, rennet is often used too.

I just add in his background because often it plays into matters, they may share similarities with those in India. The resources at his disposal are somewhat limited, he could go to the trouble of having rennet powder/pills but I did not see any. He's made his own cucumber/pickles in very basic ways as well.

So the cheese he made yes, was probably a bit like ricotta cheese or actually Paneer as listed lastly below, not meaning to get the last word on this, I will ask him. The only problem is he does not speak English very well, but I"m under the impression he made a very simple kind of cheese.

It's my fault, this is now a bit on a tangent.

http://schmidling.com/making.htm

Has this quote:

"We have also made small curd cottage cheese because we left out another ingredient called rennet. This is an enzyme the produces a harder curd. It was originally made from calf stomachs but is now synthesized and available in liquid or tablet form." (meaning ???)

Indian food often has the cheese cubes in spinach, I believe that dish is called Saag http://masala-mixins.com/website1/saag.gif <-- picture.

Surely, Indian people would never use Rennet in their cheeses.

--------

This has veered off topic and my fault as a member of the forum, I once read an article on the web that though a lot of Indian food is vegetarian, with all of the oils and butter used, one must be selective to make sure one is eating healthily.

But that is alarming about this "rennet/rennin" element. Very much so.

---------------

I know Pete knows about these things and I don't so I don't mean to just post a lot of stuff I don't know about. Here is an interesting quote none-the-less, I have no ideas about this. "Stinging Nettles"? I mean I know what that is, I never knew it might find its way to a cheese.

From a link.

Quote :

"I toured a cheese factory in the UK, and they made a non rennet version, it was curdled with a herb from a herbalist, called Stinging Nettles.

What you do is make a tea with 2 tablespoons of the nettles witha 1/2 cup of boilng water, strained and added to the milk and cream like vinegar or lemon juice what they use to make paneer.

Once the milk has curdled, you strain the curd out and press it in to a cheese."

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070802175020AAcHofs

--------------

And "Paneer"?? The farmer's cheese??

"Paneer (Hindi: पनीर panīr, from Persian پنير panir) is a fresh cheese common in South Asian cuisine. It is an unaged, acid-set, non-melting farmer cheese made by curdling heated milk with lemon juice or other food acid.

Unlike most cheeses in the world, the making of paneer does not involve rennet as the coagulation agent, thus making it completely lacto-vegetarian and providing a source of protein for vegetarian Hindus."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paneer

PhysCultureFan wrote:

Sure enough, no pun meant here, maybe a protein shake daily but whey can weigh me down, I really feel it, like when you bend over and you might breath heavily, kind of like you are full or something...

I agree. These days my workouts are usually in the early morning, if I ate more than a little fruit and a glass of water before lifting I'd swell up like a dead hog in the sun.
I try not to have breakfast or a shake until after.
There's also the question, "How large is a 'shake'?" I just checked-- mine is about 250 ml, which is about one measuring cup, that's about half what I used to take when I was interested in bulk.

Yes, again...
Paneer such as found in Indian cooking is made with an acid like lemon juice, and qualifies as veggie, although not vegan.
Many years ago I made documentary films in India, some of which had to do with traditional cooking... Okay, tonight I'll make Masala Dosa for dinner...

P.S. For a while in the past I kept French Alpine dairy goats, so I made lots of cheese. Used Junket Rennet tablets to curdle the milk, but I don't know if it's an animal product or from a factory.

Quote :

...Used Junket Rennet tablets to curdle the milk, but I don't know if it's an animal product or from a factory....

Unless it's changed (which is unlikely) then Junketts use animal rennet http://www.junketdesserts.com/junketrennettablets.aspx

I did a brief Google search for “vegan cheese rennet”, there’s a lot of information out there, but this site seems particularly helpful:

http://cheese.joyousliving.com/

”This site provides information for vegetarians.
Cheese can be made with or without rennet which is derived from the stomach tissue of a slaughtered calf. This list specifies those cheeses which are made without the use of rennet. Today more and more cheeses are made with “microbial enzymes” which are widely used in the industry because they are a consistent and inexpensive coagulant. The term “microbial enzyme” means it is a synthetically developed coagulant. The term “vegetable rennet” means it is derived from a vegetable source. Soft cheeses such as cream cheese and cottage cheese are manufactured without rennet. Some cottage cheeses, however, may contain gelatin which is derived from animal sources. All labels should be read carefully.”

By the way, since we’re drifting off and on topic in this thread anyway…

One of the sites I visited mentioned that the most common source of rennet is the stomach linings of slaughtered veal calves. I assume that everyone in the vegetarian/vegan world knows about the inhuman conditions under which veal calves are raised so I won’t go into detail about it.

However, hanging on the wall beside my desk is a photograph of a young woman, who many years later would become my wife. In the photo she is bottle-feeding a calf. The calf is “Howie the Cowie,” My future wife and some of her friends were investigating conditions at a farm and found Howie laying on the floor of his tiny veal calf crate. They pooled all of the money they had in their pockets and talked the farmer into selling the sick calf for thirty-five dollars. They carried the calf, who could not walk, to the car, took him home and began trying to nurse him back to health. Howie responded to their treatment, and lived a long and contented life in the pasture of a friend’s vegetarian farm.

I am very proud of my wife for her record on behalf of animals, and that she converted me to vegetarian… she is my hero.

I use protein whey consistantly, from what I've seen, I've bulked up faster, mainly muscle regeneration is up, so I build muscle faster. When I wasn't using it, I was still building muscle, but not as fast. Just for toning and weight loss, I probably wouldn't recommend it, I'd stick with some of the smoothies with different nutritional values, maybe some protein every now and then, but I wouldn't go strictly protein whey.

I lost the thread but I think it is this one where 'bloating' was talked about. And as I said, I have the tendency to appear to breathe heavily sometimes when I'm stuffed and say, I do something a bit strenuous, bend over, you know how often one doesn't feel like running after a big meal.

It's not important but what I think happens is your digestive system, stomach, etc. might be pushing up against the lungs and causes this. Just wanted to throw that in.

Not all Soya proteins taste bad!! I love our one. I know i am probably biased but it rocks.

Since I decided not to use whey protein, does anyone have a good idea of what to do with a rather large quantity of it I still have on hand? I hate to just throw it out. Can't give it away.
Maybe I'll mix it with water and use it for wallpaper paste.

I don't know, maybe a garden fertiliser? Feed it to a local mutt (not just as powder that would be nasty), make flour bombs & throw them at people who deserve it, put it into little bags & leave around a local drug dealing area (oh that would be cruel as well wouldn't it ), oh oh! I know it's halloween VERY soon, you could go out as a dusty zombie or vampire & use the powder to dust yourself down or it's trick or treat so you could give them a trick of a big dusting of whey protein for every child that rings your doorbell! There you go loads of ideas to keep you going!
Are you going without protein or just moving to other types (like soy, rice, pea or hemp).
Let us know what you decide